WHAT THE HAL?? PODCAST 2.0 – EPISODE 14: Audubon Beyond Birds
WHAT THE HAL?? PODCAST 2.0 – EPISODE 14
Audubon Beyond Birds — Conservation, Education, and Community Impact
Bird conservation is only part of the story.
In this episode, Hal Eisner, Elsa Ramon, and Hunter Lowry sit down with Kathy Barton, President of the San Fernando Valley Audubon Society, to explore how one local organization is making a lasting impact through environmental education, habitat preservation, wildfire prevention, and community engagement.
Named Nonprofit of the Year by the California Association of Nonprofits, the San Fernando Valley Audubon Society is helping protect local ecosystems while inspiring future generations to become environmental stewards.
KEY TOPICS
• Why the San Fernando Valley Audubon Society was named Nonprofit of the Year
• Habitat preservation and community-led conservation efforts
• Birds as environmental indicators and what they tell us about ecosystem health
• The importance of the Sepulveda Basin as a migratory bird habitat
• Educational programs that introduce students to nature through hands-on learning
• The role of birds, pollinators, and predators in maintaining ecological balance
• Using technology like the Merlin Bird ID app to connect people with nature
• Innovative wildfire prevention efforts using goat grazing
• The post-pandemic rise in birdwatching and outdoor engagement
• Protecting bird populations through responsible pet ownership and habitat-friendly practices
Support the podcast
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Original Theme Music Composed by Stuart Pearson
https://stuartpearsonmusic.com
Listen to previous episodes
https://audioboom.com/channels/4960408-what-the-hal
RESOURCES & LINKS
https://sfvaudubon.org
https://www.birds.cornell.edu/home/machine-learning/merlin-bird-id-app/
https://www.cattios.com
https://instagram.com/audubonsociety
CONNECT
Hal Eisner
https://instagram.com/haleisner/
https://facebook.com/haleisner/
https://x.com/HalEisner
Elsa Ramon
https://instagram.com/elsamramon/
https://x.com/ElsaMRamon
Hunter Lowry
https://instagram.com/serendipitychick/
Transcript
Birdwatchers, Right.
Speaker A:But it's so much more.
Speaker A:I'm Hal Eisner with Hunter Lowry and Elsa Ramon, and this is what the hell.
Speaker A:Smart, fresh, and uplifting.
Speaker A:We've got the stories that make you want to say, what the hell.
Speaker A:The San Fernando Valley chapter of the Audubon Society Regional was named Nonprofit of the Year by the California association of Nonprofits.
Speaker B:That's some valuable recognition for a group that's often overlooked, but you're having a big impact with fire prevention.
Speaker B:And so much more.
Speaker C:There's the so much more.
Speaker C:We've invited Kathy Barton, president of the San Fernando Valley chapter of the Audubon Society, to fill us in on what the Audubon Society is all about and what that so much more is.
Speaker C:And we already said it.
Speaker C:Hal said it.
Speaker C:It's so much more than birds.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:Although that is the first thing that comes to mind, to be honest.
Speaker B:Yes, indeed.
Speaker B:So much more than birds.
Speaker C:In what ways?
Speaker B:Nothing wrong with birds, though, right?
Speaker C:Yeah, right.
Speaker C:In what ways is it so much more than birds?
Speaker B:Well, we think of ourselves and the Audubon Society as a whole as a.
Speaker B:Obviously, we're here to advocate for birds and to further bird conservation, but we're also an educational institution, a conservation institution, from, you know, conserving, helping support our local parks to actually.
Speaker B:Facilitating purchase of sensitive lands for their conservation, where we've got our fingers in lots of.
Speaker B:Lots of different pies.
Speaker A:Kathy Barton is the.
Speaker A:Well, she's the head of the chapter, president of the San Fernando Valley unit.
Speaker A:And I have to apologize.
Speaker A:Birds make noise up there.
Speaker A:My dog is making noise down here.
Speaker A:So, you know, we've got critters every which way.
Speaker A:So please forgive me for Lila speaking up.
Speaker A:But, you know, I think there are a lot of things that I find curious about birds.
Speaker A:First of all, I want to share a little story, and I'll do it a little bit about hummingbirds, because I have a particular love of hummingbirds.
Speaker A:But there's something that I understand is very significant about what birds mean to our environment.
Speaker A:And I wonder if you could punch that out for us right off the top, because, you know, why do we care about birds?
Speaker A:Because it affects where we breathe, where we live, our universe.
Speaker B:Sure.
Speaker B:You may have heard the expression of the canary in the coal mine, and I think there's a reason for that.
Speaker B:The old miners used to take canaries down into the coal mines with them because the birds were more sensitive to the buildup of carbon monoxide.
Speaker B:So when the canary fell off its perch, they realized, oh, my Goodness, we've got something to worry about here.
Speaker B:And we're able to get themselves out safely.
Speaker B:And I think one way that birds help us is they are more sensitive to changes in the environment.
Speaker B:We're already seeing differences in the timing and the areas where birds are migrating because of the effects of climate change.
Speaker B:They are exquisitely sensitive to pollution in our environment, to pesticides, to.
Speaker B:I mean, remember it was the, I don't know if you recall, it was the peregrine falcon and the brown pelicans having difficulties with their eggs that alerted us to the dangers of ddt.
Speaker B:So, you know, in a, in a very kind of person centered, a human centered way, they're important to us also because just they're beautiful and they're a part, an intricate, integral part of the environment.
Speaker B:You know, they eat insects that they help protect our crops.
Speaker B:They, you know, contribute to the quality of life in so many ways.
Speaker B:And of course, we just enjoy learning about them and watching them.
Speaker B:Well, you work out of the San Fernando Valley and the San Fernando Valley, especially the Sepulveda Basin area, has a valuable biological diversity.
Speaker B:And how is that reflected in your work?
Speaker B:You guys work with more than birds, right?
Speaker B:Absolutely.
Speaker B:The Sepulveda Basin is kind of our baby.
Speaker B:Our chapter was instrumental in designing and creating the Sepulveda Basin Wildlife Reserve, which is a couple hundred acres with a lake in the middle that is fed by outflow from the Tillman Water treatment plant that's located in the basin.
Speaker B:And this wildlife area attracts several hundred different species of birds because we are on a migratory flyway and it acts kind of like a truck stop for the birds on their way north and south.
Speaker B:They're flying over this giant urban area that doesn't look very inviting for birds.
Speaker B:And then all of a sudden they see several hundred acres of trees and grass and most importantly water, and they drop down, they may spend a night, they may spend a couple of days feeding, resting, drinking water, taking care of their feathers and then they continue on.
Speaker B:And plus we have many, many species that are resident there year round.
Speaker B:We use.
Speaker B:One of the central parts of the mission of our mission statement is environmental education.
Speaker B:And because the basin is in the middle of a very park poor area, we can use the wildlife area as a central part of our environmental education program.
Speaker B:We sponsor a program called the Sepulveda Basin Environmental Education Program which reaches Several thousand grade 5 elementary school students from mostly title 1 schools, so economically disadvantaged schools.
Speaker B:And the program brings them out to the basin, gives them binoculars to use for the day, they have access to Microscopes to look at pond life.
Speaker B:We take them for a bird walk, we talk to them about the importance of conserving resources, we talk about the water cycle.
Speaker B:And for many of these kids, it's their first time in a wildlife reserve.
Speaker B:It's their first time handling binoculars or looking through a scientific instrument like a microscope.
Speaker B:And the children just love it.
Speaker C:Well, I bet it gives them a chance to kind of, for a day, be a little scientist, environmentalist in a way.
Speaker C:I mean, that reminds me of kind of how we learn things have a ripple effect.
Speaker C:When you take the kids out there and they get a chance to see this world and how it affects everything around us, you either inspire them to maybe pursue a career in this or even just spark awareness.
Speaker C:But it reminds me of, you know, recently I read a story about how wolves being reintroduced into some areas are having a positive impact on the environment arounding them because they are effectively controlling the deer population naturally, which protects the water, and so on and so on and so on.
Speaker C:And I think, you know, we've seen that lately with bees, how that's been brought to our attention, how bees have a ripple effect and ultimately are crucial for human existence.
Speaker C:And I feel like we're seeing the same thing with birds.
Speaker C:People may not give them much of a thought other than, oh, what a pretty bird flying in the sky or oh, that was neat, or they pooped on my car, I don't know.
Speaker C:But in any, in any case, they seem to have the same ripple effect, do they not?
Speaker B:Absolutely.
Speaker B:As I mentioned before, birds play a very big role in our ecosystem.
Speaker B:And I like to think that by bringing the kids out and letting them see birds, it opens their eyes to the possibilities.
Speaker B:As I said, many of these kids, most of these kids live in extremely park poor areas.
Speaker B:The San Fernando Valley is notorious for that.
Speaker B:And here in the middle of the valley is this little oasis.
Speaker B:And few of them have ever been there before.
Speaker B:And I recall once when I was leading a group of fifth graders around and it was the end of the walk and they're heading back to the bus where they're going to get their lunch.
Speaker B:And you know kids, they are hungry all the time.
Speaker B:And I expected the children to be racing back.
Speaker B:And some of them were, but there were these two little boys who kept dawdling along behind and I finally asked them, aren't you, you know, why aren't you hurrying back to the bus?
Speaker B:And one of them turned to me and he said, it's so peaceful here.
Speaker B:And that just warmed my heart and made Me think, okay, we are doing the right thing here.
Speaker C:I do have a follow up though, because I know you did mention the impact on the environment, but in like maybe one or two specific examples of how birds actually do that, like, you know, we get with bees, we know they pollinate and, you know, that contributes to our food source and so on and so on and so on.
Speaker C:How, like, what things do birds do that contribute to the betterment?
Speaker B:Well, our environment.
Speaker B:Birds are pollinators too.
Speaker B:People don't think of that.
Speaker B:But as birds feed on nectar in blossoms, they are spreading pollen just as bees do.
Speaker B:And there are many plants that are exclusively pollinated by birds.
Speaker B:So for example, anytime you see a flower that has a long tube, you know, a very long tube, bees are not pollinating that.
Speaker B:They can't, they can't get to that nectar.
Speaker B:The only creatures that can get to that nectar are hummingbirds.
Speaker B:So anytime you see a flower with a long tubular shape, it's going to be pollinated by hummingbirds.
Speaker B:Another way they help us obviously is by eating insects, you know, harmful insects, mosquitoes.
Speaker B:You know, many of our birds feed almost exclusively on insects.
Speaker B:And you know, but, and that's one reason that the broad use of pesticides has been so devastating to the bird population that the pesticides are not.
Speaker B:I mean, they're harmful in and of themselves, but the tremendous reduction in the insect population is now having the effect of reducing the bird population as well.
Speaker B:So, yeah, they are a very important part of our ecosystem.
Speaker A:You were talking about children here a few minutes ago, and I said I was going to talk about hummingbirds for a moment.
Speaker A:I remember when my kids were children, hummingbirds set up a nest in wind chimes on the patio.
Speaker A:And, and we got a little ladder and we looked up over into the wind chimes and there were eggs.
Speaker A:And every day, more than once a day, we would take a look at the nest and follow the life cycle of a hummingbird from the eggs to the birth to leaving the nest.
Speaker A:And it was just fascinating.
Speaker A:And I think that's where I got my passion for hummingbirds.
Speaker A:In fact, you know, I'm going to get one of these little hummingbird feeders that have a camera.
Speaker A:I'm going to hang it out here on my, my balcony so that I can watch the birds on my phone through the camera in the nest.
Speaker A:I love technology and I think that that's a pretty good use of it.
Speaker A:So, you know, I think hummingbirds are fascinating.
Speaker A:The, the wing speed and all of that is just crazy.
Speaker B:Yes, hummingbirds are Amazing creatures.
Speaker A:As they fly upside down, right?
Speaker B:You say you can fly forwards, backwards, right, Left, upside down.
Speaker B:I didn't know that.
Speaker B:They are extremely agile flyers.
Speaker B:I once watched a hummingbird chase away a red tail hawk that it felt was a little too close to its territory.
Speaker B:And it did it by just getting in that hawk's face and harassing it.
Speaker B:Endless, you know, relentlessly, you know, getting in close to the base, flying back, getting in, flying back.
Speaker B:And the hummingbird has no fear because nothing can catch it.
Speaker C:A little fighter jet.
Speaker C:They're like little fighter jets.
Speaker B:Like little fighter jets.
Speaker A:Do the wings go?
Speaker A:How fast do the wings go?
Speaker B:That I can't.
Speaker B:I don't have that off the top of my head.
Speaker B:But it's.
Speaker A:It's crazy.
Speaker A:The.
Speaker A:Yeah, right.
Speaker A:For sure.
Speaker B:It's like thousands of times.
Speaker B:It's hundreds of times that.
Speaker B:Maybe thousands of times a second.
Speaker B:Love that story.
Speaker B:Because it shows the power of being small and annoying.
Speaker B:Absolutely.
Speaker B:That's my superpower.
Speaker B:And the red tail hawk just decided, you know what?
Speaker B:It's not worth it to hang out.
Speaker B:I'll go hang out somewhere else.
Speaker B:I had a question about another one of your projects because you guys did something pretty special recently involving not birds, but goats.
Speaker B:Can you tell us about that?
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:That was a lot of fun.
Speaker B:As you have probably heard, we have a lot of trouble with wildfires here in brush fires and wildfires here in Los Angeles county, and especially in the Sepulveda Basin, where there is a lot of weedy overgrowth.
Speaker B:And we have been trying for years to get a pilot program approved to try using goats to consume this weedy overgrowth.
Speaker B:I know they have been used.
Speaker B:Friends of ours have not.
Speaker B:In the city of la, in the city of Santa Monica, I believe, had the experience of having goats go through their housing development and chewing up the weeds.
Speaker B:And they're frequently used in areas that are hard to reach, like mountains and cliffs and such.
Speaker B:But our idea was to try to use them in the basin because they're less damaging to the existing native vegetation than, for example, herbicides would be.
Speaker B:So we tried for years.
Speaker B:And, you know, the city had never done anything like this, so it was difficult to get the permits, it was difficult to get progress.
Speaker B:And then the mayor's office came through for us in a great way and said, make this happen.
Speaker B:And so we had a pilot program with a thousand goats munching on invasive mustard and other plants in the.
Speaker B:In the basin.
Speaker B:And we will continue with this pilot program monitoring the area that was munched to see how it compares to other areas and whether that is a successful, you know, a successful way to reduce fire risk.
Speaker B:But in the meantime, it was a lot of fun to watch the goats,.
Speaker A:Of course, and yet, not far away, up at the Reagan Library, they've been using goats for years to mow down the grass.
Speaker A:Have you been in communication with the Reagan Library and Simi Valley to sort of see what tips you can get from them?
Speaker B:Well, you know, we trusted the professionals with the goats, so to my knowledge, we haven't been in communication with the Reagan Library.
Speaker B:But, you know, the company that we employed, the owners of the goats, have been doing this for years.
Speaker B:And it's probably the same company, I'm going to guess.
Speaker A:Yeah, might be they outsource it as well.
Speaker A:So it very well might be, if possible.
Speaker B:Do you have any idea why the city was so resistant to doing this when it's been done so successfully?
Speaker B:Other places I can make a guess, and my guess would just be because they had never done it before and, you know, they were worried about potential risk.
Speaker B:You know, what.
Speaker B:What if.
Speaker B:Because the basin is a flood.
Speaker B:Flood basin.
Speaker B:You know, what if we got rain?
Speaker B:Then the goats would have to be moved out because they would drown.
Speaker B:You know, what about the.
Speaker B:The goatherd had to stay with them 24 hours.
Speaker B:So they had to, you know, we had to get permission to have a camper on site so that the goatherd had somewhere to sleep.
Speaker B:So it's just.
Speaker B:It hadn't been done before, but now that it has been done once by us, the kind of.
Speaker B:The floodgates have opened, and other areas within the city of Los Angeles are successfully getting the permits.
Speaker B:The goats.
Speaker B:In fact, the goats went straight to another project within the city after they were done with us.
Speaker C:Okay, so, Kathy, I don't know if you've seen this or not.
Speaker C:You know, we talked about how people may just assume that the Audubon Society is about birds, and there are a bunch of people who are obsessed with watching birds, and you see them walking around with binoculars and, you know, spending their day chasing, you know, the opportunity maybe to see this one rare bird.
Speaker C:But I think there might be some influence on Instagram in how people see birds.
Speaker B:And it's.
Speaker C:I think it's totally accidental, but there's an account that I've been following for a while because I stumbled across it.
Speaker C:And his name is Keith Lau.
Speaker C:L A U E. I think that's how you say his name, but he posts on his Instagram a bunch of different birds doing their mating dances and Then he cuts to himself doing the same mating dance to his wife to see if she reacts.
Speaker C:And it's just, it's really funny.
Speaker C:But since he started doing it that I've seen other men do it, like when they're out in public at a bar, they start trying to do.
Speaker C:I mean, I've got his example right here, and we can add this in post, but I wanted you to see how he.
Speaker C:He takes each different bird and he.
Speaker C:And he tries to mimic their mating, you know, dance.
Speaker C:And.
Speaker C:And there's another guy who, who does it for his wife and she just looks at him like, what are you doing?
Speaker C:And, you know, but it's.
Speaker C:I think it's actually kind of a really cute way to bring awareness.
Speaker C:And I don't think they meant to.
Speaker C:They were trying to be funny and mimic nature and see if doing that can attract a mate.
Speaker C:There's one another guy who is specifically learning all of the bird, male bird dances so that every time he meets a woman, he, you know, kind of jokingly does this, the bird mating dance.
Speaker C:But I don't know if you've ever seen those before, but I kind of find those funny because I don't, you know, I think they accidentally kind of raise awareness for the kind of stuff we're talking about right now.
Speaker B:There are so many different social media accounts focused on birds and bird behavior and bird photography.
Speaker B:It's one of the most popular hobbies in the United States and fastest growing.
Speaker B:The I will say that the one event and the last, you know, since I started bird watching that has really contributed to its explosive growth is the pandemic.
Speaker B:A lot of people discovered birds during the COVID lockdowns when they needed something to occupy them.
Speaker B:You know, they could look at birds in their backyard birding.
Speaker B:But we continued after a short period of not leading our walks, we continued leading our walks because outdoor activities are safer or were safer during the lockdown.
Speaker B:And we had just an explosion of people interested in going on our walks because, you know, when.
Speaker B:When you're stressed and anxious and, you know, too focused on problems in the world, there's nothing that takes you out of it quite like being out in.
Speaker B:In a natural setting and looking intently for something else.
Speaker B:And being with other people with similar interests is also very, very soul soothing.
Speaker B:But yes, I have seen similar videos and they are hysterical.
Speaker B:And it just goes to show you, one of the appeals of birding, I think for me is that, you know, birds are so different and all of those birds have a very different style of attracting Mates and their feathers are different and their body shapes are different and their habits are different.
Speaker B:So it's, there's always something to learn, always something to appreciate.
Speaker B:You know, on this podcast you mentioned something earlier.
Speaker B:I didn't mean to interrupt, I'm sorry.
Speaker B:But you did mention something that I found interesting, which was that we don't necessarily see all the birds that are out there.
Speaker B:Like you mentioned earlier, like more than 100 different types of birds in Balboa Park.
Speaker B:And I think part of it might be the focus that we don't see them unless we're looking for them with the binoculars and the awareness and maybe a bird.
Speaker B:And I think that might be part of the appeal is like people learn to expose themselves to something that they never knew was there before.
Speaker B:Exactly.
Speaker B:I think that has been my experience that I think I mentioned before that when I was growing up, I thought the only birds we had in Los Angeles were sparrows and blackbirds.
Speaker B:And it was a complete shock to me when I got my first pair of binoculars and started looking at those sparrows, that they weren't, they weren't all sparrows.
Speaker B:Some of them were warblers, some of them were cedar waxwings, some of them were, you know, some of them had beautiful bright colors.
Speaker B:And I want to also mention the importance of hearing the birds and real using that clue to, you know, to focus in on where the birds are and look at them with your binoculars.
Speaker B:And there is one tool, a new tool that's only been around for a few years now that is revolutionizing bird watching for, you know, your average birder.
Speaker B:And that is an app, an iPhone, a phone app, smartphone app called Merlin M E R L I N and it's put out by the Cornell Laboratory of Ornithology and it's free to download.
Speaker B:And it's a bird identification and education tool.
Speaker B:And you know, you can use it to help you identify the bird by sight.
Speaker B:But what's really revolutionary is that it has like a built in algorithm that if you just hold your phone out while a bird is singing, it will tell you what bird is singing.
Speaker B:Wow.
Speaker C:It's like Shazam for birds.
Speaker B:It's Shazam for birds.
Speaker B:Exactly.
Speaker B:You know, when I, when I first started birding, many, many, many years ago, I would get so frustrated that I would hear a bird and I'd say, I know that's something I haven't heard before, but I don't know what it is and I can't find it.
Speaker B:And now, you know, I just hold my phone up and it tells me what that bird is and I know.
Speaker B:Oh well, that's something I would really like to see.
Speaker B:And it's helped me learn the bird calls so that I can, super cool, I can walk through a park and you know, identify most of the common birds in there by, by ear alone.
Speaker A:I, I, I was going to mention Balboa park because I've, I've seen a number of birders walking around the park doing their thing, but just a little sharp turn here.
Speaker A:I, I think birds have been on the pejorative end of some conversations.
Speaker A:We've heard of terms like bird brain and, and things like that birds have small brains and, and, but that doesn't mean that they don't have cognitive, you know, awareness in some way.
Speaker A:I'm kind of curious about that.
Speaker A:And also the sort of connection to their relatives, the dinosaurs could go on those two things for me.
Speaker B:Sure.
Speaker B:Well, I think first, as far as birds cognitive abilities, I think it's important to remember that we can't judge their cognitive abilities on the same scale and by the same criteria that we would judge our own.
Speaker B:After all, however smart they may be, however tiny their brains are, they're smart enough to have survived for millions of years.
Speaker B:So obviously they know what they're doing.
Speaker B:But in particular, birds brains physically are organized differently, structured differently than ours.
Speaker B:So you can't say oh, because their brain is so much smaller, they are so much less intelligent.
Speaker B:They actually, I believe have, I'm not an authority on this, but I believe they have more neurons per volume than we do, than our brains do.
Speaker B:So they have like more connections going on in a smaller space.
Speaker B:And there are some groups of birds whose cognitive ability is roughly equivalent to primates, chimps and apes and also to very young children, like two to three year old children, children.
Speaker B:So they, you know, they can, crows can count.
Speaker B:You know, if five people go into a blind and three come out, the crows know there's still two people in there.
Speaker B:I'm, you know, it's still not safe for me to do what I want to do, you know, I know some brain now, huh?
Speaker C:I know, right?
Speaker C:I was going to say I know some humans who have, you know, we have big brains and none of those neurons are firing.
Speaker C:Okay.
Speaker C:So if you've got, you know, if you've got a bird with a tiny brain, but the whole brain is being used, you know, it's all relative.
Speaker B:So yes, the, the crows and ravens and jays and the parrots are well known for being extremely intelligent.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:And there's Some parents.
Speaker C:My mom had an African gray for many, many, many years and he was just super smart, super smart bird.
Speaker B:And, and, and as for the dinosaur question, it is, yeah, I think there is very, very little doubt now that birds are dinosaurs.
Speaker B:They are the surviving line.
Speaker B:Dinosaurs didn't go extinct.
Speaker B:They survived in birds.
Speaker B:So that is another thought that just charms me.
Speaker B:You know, as, as fascinated as we all were with dinosaurs when we were little kids, the idea that now we're going out and watching dinosaurs flying around and their, you know, beautiful bright feathers and it's just, it thrills me.
Speaker A:Well, I can't let you leave.
Speaker A:I can't.
Speaker A:Wait, wait.
Speaker A:I can't let you leave without talking about the feathers on dinosaurs.
Speaker A:As some have noted.
Speaker B:Yes, that as has been discovered in more than one fossils, many, many dinosaurs had feathers.
Speaker B:Now the feathers were probably initially for insulation, you know, for thermoregulation, because feathers are absolutely phenomenal insulator as, as we know from down jackets and down sleeping bags.
Speaker B:And then eventually they evolved to be used in flight.
Speaker B:I want to bring it back around to what we can do to support the birds and the population of our animals out in the field there.
Speaker B:But I know that as Elsa and I are both cat owners, there is one thing that needs to be brought up about what we can do to help birds.
Speaker B:You want, you want to mention that?
Speaker B:Oh, yes, the studies have been done and one of their, one of the most important things that we can do as cat owners, I own a cat too, is to keep our cats indoors.
Speaker B:Cats are a tremendous.
Speaker B:They're very skilled predators and they love going after not just birds, but lizards, insects and anything else that's out there.
Speaker B:And anything that moves, anything that is smaller than them.
Speaker B:Yeah, they will, they will kill it.
Speaker C:I mean, really, honestly, they will, they will kill it.
Speaker B:Studies have been done and I don't have the numbers off the top of my head, but cats in the United States are responsible for every year for the death of millions of birds.
Speaker B:And, and you know what?
Speaker B:As a responsible pet owner, you don't want your cats wandering around outside anyway.
Speaker B:You know, there are coyotes everywhere.
Speaker B:I spoke to someone who was doing a coyote study and they were looking at coyote scat and they determined that it was largely made up of backyard, you know, fruit from backyard trees and dogs and cats.
Speaker C:No, no, it's absolutely.
Speaker C:A cat's lifespan is dramatically decreased if they're outdoors.
Speaker C:They, they just shouldn't be outdoors at all like that.
Speaker B:They should not.
Speaker B:And there are alternatives.
Speaker B:I would urge your listeners to look into catios.
Speaker B:I don't know if you've heard that, that new word, but they're outdoor enclosures that allow your cat to be outdoors and to enjoy the sun and the breeze and to watch birds safely and protect them as well from predation.
Speaker C:Yeah, my old veterinarian, I was going to just really quickly add that to drive this point home.
Speaker C:My former veterinarian, when I lived in Texas, on the marquee, he put up bird feeder equals cat feeder if your cats are outside.
Speaker C:So, I mean, they made sure that they let people know you're feeding your cats if you put one of these out here and your cats are outdoors.
Speaker B:Yeah, that is true.
Speaker A:Well, I just wanted to give you an opportunity to put out your website and let everybody know exactly how they can learn more and reach out to your chapter of the Audubon Society.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:Our website is sfvaudubon.org and if you go there, you will find our schedule, events of events.
Speaker B:We have walks all over the San Fernando Valley.
Speaker B:And what that means is that, you know, one of our members acts as a guide and takes people around and helps identify the birds.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And we have these at least five or six walks a month.
Speaker B:We also have a regular monthly bird sit with nature journaling that's very popular.
Speaker B:So check out our website for our events.
Speaker B:Check out our website for information about attracting birds to your yard.
Speaker B:Identification of common backyard birds, newsworthy items, things that we're working on in terms of trying to influence legislation or local policy.
Speaker B:It's a new website and we're very proud of it.
Speaker A:We have, as they say, a bird in the hand.
Speaker A:Yeah, we are.
Speaker A:Kathy Barton, thanks so much.
Speaker A:Really appreciate you and, and your information.
Speaker B:Thank you so much for giving me the opportunity to talk about birds, which I can do all day long.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:All right.
Speaker C:Thank you so much.
Speaker B:Thank you.
Speaker A:And that's what the hell 2.0.
Speaker A:I'm Hal Eisner along with Elsa Ramon and Hunter Lowrey.
Speaker A:This podcast is produced by Hunter.
Speaker A:Jamie Knapp is our technical director editor and he handles all of the post production.
Speaker A:Our original theme music is composed by Stuart Pearson.
Speaker A:Earlier versions of the podcast were produced at the studios of Fox 11 in Los Angeles and are available through the link in our show Notes.
Speaker A:This version of the podcast is available on YouTube and wherever you listen to podcasts and what.
Speaker A:But the HOW 2.0 is produced in Los Angeles, California.
